tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4836027257696992542.post8293919362633039969..comments2024-02-11T09:36:12.476+01:00Comments on ldami: Be fair to ActiveStatedamihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05175840149225722194noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4836027257696992542.post-41859227221565767852009-08-28T23:45:03.948+02:002009-08-28T23:45:03.948+02:00An let's not forget AS do a great Mac bundle s...An let's not forget AS do a great Mac bundle still, probably the best way to get Perl 5.10 onto the Mac platform in a useable way. Three cheers to them for that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4836027257696992542.post-27496963477665899802009-08-26T01:53:19.475+02:002009-08-26T01:53:19.475+02:00Thanks for the post Laurent! I'd like to respo...Thanks for the post Laurent! I'd like to respond to some of the comments if I may:<br /><br /><em>It was Perl without the CPAN...</em><br /><br />To clarify for others reading this thread, ActivePerl has always shipped with the CPAN shell. What it was missing until recently was an easy way to get a compiler and tools for building modules that are not pure Perl. This was a barrier to some people who weren't able to handle configuring a compiler of their choice, so we made <a href="http://www.openkomodo.com/blogs/troyt/ppm-install-mingw" rel="nofollow">MinGW available as a PPM package</a>.<br /><br />Note that even before the recent improvements in CPAN module coverage in the ActiveState PPM repository, there were still thousands of modules available. Currently there are over 11,000 packages available on multiple platforms.<br /><br /> <a href="http://ppm4.activestate.com/" rel="nofollow">http://ppm4.activestate.com/</a><br /> <br />Virtually all modules that would compile out-of-the-box with Strawberry Perl are included; only modules that don't compile (e.g. because they need additional libraries) or that fail their own regression tests are excluded.<br /><br /><em>Now there are Strawberry Perl and Padre to compete with their Perl and Komodo. Open source versus closed.</em><br /><br />With the launch of the Open Komodo project in 2007, the code base for Komodo Edit became open source. The core of ActivePerl has always been open source, though some components (like PPM 4, the PerlScript ActiveX scripting engine, and the IIS plugins) are proprietary.<br /><br /><em>What I'd like to see would be collaboration between AS and Strawberry which would allow people to build binaries for windows extremely easily and share them.</em><br /><br />I don't really understand the problem here. The PPM package format is a standard that anyone can use. The XML document format for PPD files is described here:<br /><br /> <a href="http://search.cpan.org/dist/PPM/lib/PPM/XML/PPD.pm" rel="nofollow">http://search.cpan.org/dist/PPM/lib/PPM/XML/PPD.pm</a><br /> <br />... and here's a module for making PPM packages:<br /> <br /> <a href="http://search.cpan.org/dist/PPM-Make/lib/PPM/Make.pm" rel="nofollow">http://search.cpan.org/dist/PPM-Make/lib/PPM/Make.pm</a><br /><br />Though PPM4 is proprietary, the packages and repositories are compatible with PPM2 which is open source.<br /><br /> <a href="http://search.cpan.org/dist/PPM/bin/ppm.pl" rel="nofollow">http://search.cpan.org/dist/PPM/bin/ppm.pl</a><br /><br /><em>It's like there are two ActiveStates -- the one that supports the core and the community and the one that peddles closed source tools.</em><br /><br />We couldn't do one without the other. There is no magic money tree growing in our offices.troytophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17890501703082661729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4836027257696992542.post-7934888548377663722009-08-24T06:51:39.069+02:002009-08-24T06:51:39.069+02:00I personally think that AS as a company is great, ...I personally think that AS as a company is great, but as previous comments have mentioned, there's just way too much stagnation. What I'd like to see would be collaboration between AS and Strawberry which would allow people to build binaries for windows extremely easily and share them. That way I can build whatever I need, as I currently do with strawberry, so I can get the latest and the greatest, and then when my coworker wants to install the latest Catalyst and DBIC on his machine it won't take hours but mere minutes. Anyway, whatever. We'll see what the future holds.fREWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13153816435895384947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4836027257696992542.post-43720597557494458502009-08-24T04:39:49.569+02:002009-08-24T04:39:49.569+02:00I greatly appreciate the support ActiveState has p...I <b>greatly</b> appreciate the support ActiveState has provided for Perl on Windows, particularly providing employment for individuals that contribute to the core. However, their build system policies and their decision to close-souce the evolution of PPM both seemed counterproductive. <br /><br />It's like there are two ActiveStates -- the one that supports the core and the community and the one that peddles closed source tools. I love one and I don't care much for the other.<br /><br />Now there are <a href="http://strawberryperl.com/" rel="nofollow">Strawberry Perl</a> and <a href="http://padre.perlide.org/" rel="nofollow">Padre</a> to compete with their Perl and Komodo. Open source versus closed. May the best product win.<br /><br />-- dagoldenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4836027257696992542.post-55295638341377218922009-08-24T04:38:28.479+02:002009-08-24T04:38:28.479+02:00er.... "inflicted"er.... "inflicted"Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16880485256236829010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4836027257696992542.post-89796431024333194342009-08-24T04:38:14.467+02:002009-08-24T04:38:14.467+02:00Most of the hate directed at ActiveState is for pa...Most of the hate directed at ActiveState is for pain inflected during their middle age.<br /><br />The period between 5.8.7 or so coming out and when it started to adapt to compete better with Strawberry were horrible.<br /><br />It was Perl without the CPAN...<br /><br />Things are certainly improved now, partly due to their efforts, and partly due to general improvements in Win32-compatibility on the CPAN (which has itself been driven by Strawberry proving a development environment with a quick feedback loop).<br /><br />Companies change over time. I find their behaviour in the last year to be greatly improved.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16880485256236829010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4836027257696992542.post-90035351282984375472009-08-23T15:57:49.451+02:002009-08-23T15:57:49.451+02:00I really have no objection to ActiveState perl - t...I really have no objection to ActiveState perl - there was quite a while, however, during which their build systems simply weren't managing to build recent versions of things which caused a lot of pain to those of us trying to support users on their version of perl.<br /><br />There's been a fair amount of bad feeling built up during that time; personally, I'm ignoring it since they seem to have largely fixed the problem.<br /><br />But.<br /><br />Since that happened, a significant percentage of the ActiveState users in the various communities I hack in have moved to Strawberry since they found themselves more likely to be able to get the modules they needed that way, so ActiveState is becoming increasingly difficult for us to support as communities due to lack of experienced users who can test on there.<br /><br />We've still got a few though - the last Catalyst user problem we had resulted in a bug report against ActiveState's autobox package and I'll be monitoring that to see how quickly it's fixed to determine what recommendations to make to future users in a similar situation.<br /><br />Let's wait and see ...<br /><br />-- mstMatt S Trout (mst)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04490146750997291286noreply@blogger.com